McCain Wins Florida
Written by Sam on January 29th, 2008
It’s been made official now. He has narrowly beat out Mitt Romney, but Florida is a winner takes all state so to the victor goes the spoils. Rudy Giuliani made a speech that sounded very much like the one Thompson made in regards to tone after South Carolina. I believe, as do the Fox News pundits, that he will be dropping out of the race within the next couple of days, possibly tomorrow. The conventional wisdom is that he’ll endorse John McCain.
9:00PM with 47% in:
Nothing has really changed. McCain at 35%, Romney 32%. The others are the same. Huckabee is already making his “concession” speech for this primary. It’s between McCain and Romney the rest of the night and if it stays this close we may not know until very late or even tomorrow.
8:20PM with 31% in:
- McCain - 34%
- Romney - 33%
- Giuliani - 15%
- Huckabee - 14%
- Paul - 3%
7:50PM with 10% in:
- McCain - 34%
- Romney - 31%
- Giuliani - 18%
- Huckabee - 13%
- Paul - 3%
7:34PM with 1% in:
- Romney - 31%
- McCain - 30%
- Giuliani - 18%
- Huckabee - 15%
- Paul - 3%
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God help us….McCain is going to win and get the nomination…get used to President Hillary Clinton.
God help us all.
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I don’t expect many of you to like McCain, but you know what? He will wipe the floor with Hillary Rodham.
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Celtic, that he will.
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No he won’t because people like myself will not vote for him.
This is a very sad moment for the Republican Party. This is like 1996 when we sent up Dole…only now we have a liberal running.
She will crush McCain…just watch and see.
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I don’t see why Republicans hate the Clintons so much that they’ll vote for a RiNO like McCain just to beat the Clintons, and in the process show that you can get away with innumerable crimes against conservatism and still win the Republican nomination.
I’m not voting for McCain, even at gunpoint. I’ll gladly let the Dems win this election if it communicates my message to the GOP: nominate someone who doesn’t thwart conservative causes for kicks; otherwise, I’m staying home.
The GOP is now officially beyond the point where it could be saved. Goodbye, borders; hello, amnesty; goodbye, freedom of speech; hello, more David Souters (we’ll only get Justices who’ll vote to uphold McCain’s single career achievement–McCain-Feingold); goodbye, conservative cause; hello, Republican-Democrat merger.
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The GOP just committed suicide.
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CNN is reporting that Rudy will drop out and endorse McCain.
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Oh yeah now that John McCain is the nominee America is just going to go to hell in a handbasket.
I understand the importance of immigration but guess what!! REAGAN GAVE AMNESTY FOLKS! McCain is a lot more right wing on immigration than Reagan.
To be serious, McCain is the most right wing candidate on foreign policy (anyone who thinks a President Romney would have backed the surge is seriously kidding themselves). I also believe that anyone who thinks his health care plan is not right wing is fooling themselves. It’s alot more free market and conservative than Mandate Romney. And on taxes, McCain’s economic advisors are Phil Gramm, Tom Coburn and Jack Kemp. Fine by me.
If anyone’s vote is decided on the basis of global warming and campaign finance reform…..than you’re fairly pathetic. I’d also add that anyone who won’t go out to vote for McCain in the face of President Clinton is delusional.
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McCain is worse on immigration than Reagan. He voted for Reagan’s amnesty, and now he wants amnesty all over again. Ed Meese said Reagan wouldn’t grant amnesty twice. McCain would. To say that McCain is anywhere to the right of Reagan on this issue is a lie.
As for campaign finance reform, Ben, just go to Hell. If you have so little regard for the First Amendment that you’d call someone “fairly pathetic” for voting based on that issue, then this isn’t the country, let alone the political party, you should make your own.
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Alan… we should not be debating what Reagan would do since he has been dead for years and out of public life for over a decade. Based on your standard, we should run to Giuliani and ask him what Reagan would have done since he worked for Reagan too.
I think this is a victory in many respects of two factions of the party that have been largely ignored by the Bush administration: fiscal cons and moderates. With Giuliani out of the race, their support will be further consolidated to the point where they cannot be stopped.
McCain is not perfect, but he definitely would be considered center-right by most Americans. Being center-right is arguably the most electable stance in the United States period.
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The fact is that if you think McCain is a traditional conservative you are delusional…you can attack the conservative base if you want but the GOP will lose this election because it has ignored conservatives for the past 4 years and now is pretty much spitting in our faces with the candidate we support the least.
You can throw out the boogey man of a Clinton presidency which of course will be devastating for the country…but I’m not throwing out my principles and selling my soul to stop her either. You want to do that fine…but you are underestimating the number of conservatives that will not support McCain….he cannot win.
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Ryan, look at Bush’s record and then try to tell me again that it’s moderates who’ve been neglected. GIVE ME A BREAK. Conservatives are the ones who’ve been neglected, and some of us, including me, will return the discourtesy this November.
When Obama gets the nomination because the Dems realize McCain has a better chance of beating Hillary than of beating Obama, your boy St. John of Arizona is going to lose the election because the media will turn on him, the moderates will swoon for Obama, and real conservatives like me will still be looking at the scars McCain gave us.
Good luck without us, pal. The election is about to take a turn you never thought it would take. You’re all screwed, and you deserve it for even considering supporting McCain.
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Gceres, I do understand your complaints about The Mac, because I don’t think there’s a single person who visits this website regularly who doesn’t have at least 3 beefs with McCain. My only response is….do you actually think Romney, or God forbide, Huckabee is more conservative than he is?
I think the Romney candidacy is deeply, deeply flawed and have little faith in his alleged conservative credentials. And c’mon….anyone with a $500 million networth who’s running as an “outsider” rings very false to many people. As for Huckabee, not worth discussing. However….very open to a reply on Romney.
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Alan… moderates have been neglected. The Bush administration has been running around on anti-gay marriage crusades and engaging in its compassionate programs instead of keeping the house in order by balancing budgets, making government run efficiently, etc… There has been nothing resembling moderation. Its either to the right or the left. On one issue, immigration, Bush tried to take the middle of the road, but its failed. The wins by McCain and the failure of an anti-immigration movement on the Republican side to manifest (because its just a concern among activists) affirms his immigration policies.
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Ryan, screw you for resorting to that Berkeley-radical rhetoric about the “anti-immigration movement.”
And how dare you say that Bush was “middle of the road” on “one” issue? First of all, he was a liberal–nay, a libertine–on that one issue, not middle of the road. The vast majority of the American people opposed his amnesty plan, not just conservatives. Secondly, the idea that Bush parted ways with conservatives on ONE issue only is simply nuts.
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Yes I do believe Romney is a conservative for reasons I’ve layed out before…and if not at least he reaches out to conservatives. McCain is not a traditional conservative and I’m not going to blindly support the Republicans when they give us an anti-conservative like McCain.
I’ll give the brief synopsis on Romney’s conservative bona fides (longer one is on another post):
Romney first ran against Kennedy as a moderate conservative and emphasized moderate positions on gay rights and abortion…he lost albeit close 55 - 45.
When he ran for governor, he was still pro-choice effectively but his campaign emphasized tax cuts and spending restraint…
Then as Governor, he was able to cut taxes, cut spending, allow state troopers to ask immigration status and cooperate with INS, appointed conservative judges, relied on private insurance solution on healthcare instead of public system (though I actually personally oppose this plan…it reflected some conservative principles), abolished retroactive capital gains taxes, fought very hard against stem cell research public funding and while in the midst of this fight came to a pro-life position on abortion (I remind you that Reagan signed the CA abortion law liberalizing abortions before becoming the number one pro-lifer in the country), fought tooth and nail against judicial imposed gay marriage….and he did all these things in the bluest state in the nation with an overwhelmingly Democratic legislature….
So his signature achievements are ALL conservative.
Let’s look at McCain’s most well known achievements:
Liberal positions:
McCain-Feingold assault on free speech.
McCain-Kennedy amnesty.
Global warming initiatives
Twice voted against the Bush Tax Cuts
Organized the Gang of 14
Voted to prohibit drilling in ANWR
Voted for Sarbanes-Oxley
Work with Kennedy on Healthcare plan
Calls water boarding terrorists “torture”
Opposes English as an official language
Conservative:
Fights earmarks and overspending
Supports surge
So yes, Romney has a MUCH more conservative record than McCain.
P.S.—the anti-immigration comment is asinine as in trying to tell people that the McCain plan was not amnesty.
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This is just typical Rush Limbaugh-esque abject arrogance. To think that the loss of votes from the lunatic fringe who will not support McCain in the general election will offset the huge increase in moderates willing to support McCain is so idiotic that I can hardly believe you said it.
Your complaining about the direction of the Republican party is apparently a complaint about the membership of the party. After all, this was not a decision by party leadership, but a popular decision made by VOTING REPUBLICANS. If you can’t reconcile yourself with the majority of your party, then perhaps you belong on the lunatic fringe rather than in a legitimate political party. Grow up.
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I’ll also add that your attempt to turn this immigration nonsense into the gay marriage of this election cycle didn’t seem to work out. Nonsubstantive issues that evoke strong emotional responses but without much content tend to fizzle out fairly fast. Maybe you timed it wrong.
John McCain has one of the most conservative voting records in the senate. You can harp on these nonsense issues, but on subsantive issues, McCain has a consistently conservative voting record. Your “list” is meaninless because the budget and government spending (which is integrally related to fundamental philosophy on the role of government) is by far the most important issue that the federal government deals with. To equate his conservative philosophy on the size of government with ANWR or waterboarding, as if those issues are of equal importance, is absurd.
This happens in every election cycle; you guys are the equivalent of 2004’s Deaniacs. At the end of the day, the adults take over and the serious candidate wins.
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Publius, why don’t you take a long walk off a short pier? No one missed you, and no one will.
Anyone who says McCain has one of the most conservative voting records in the Senate is either a liar or a moron. Not that that’s my only problem with Publius–hell, I’ve read far too much of his drivel.
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If Romney cared about the conservative movement (which he does NOT) he would drop out and endorse Huckabee.
Huckabee is the only true, consistent conservative standing in the race. I hear laughs of derision. But that is because so far you have been fed a pack of lies and distortions about him.
OnTheIssues.org, an independent and very useful analysis site, puts Huckabee to the RIGHT of Romney.
As recently as 2005, Romney was voted #8 on Human Events’ list of top 10 RINOs.
Romney governed as a moderate or a liberal in Massachusetts. Many in his own Republican state party, which he left in a shambles, say that much of his last few years as governor he spent posturing for a national Republican run, avoiding controversial issues and leaving them to the legislature.
In 2005, Romney said that Huckabee would make an excellent President. They knew each other as part of the National Governors Association.
But in the same year, Romney started spreading large sums of money around to conservative think tanks and advocacy groups like the Club for Growth. Romney allies funded the CfG’s attacks on Huckabee. He pre-empted Huckabee on his relatively MORE conservative record to divert attention from his own record.
What short memories we have. What little research we do. What intellectual curiosity we lack.
Huckabee’s conservatism is consistent, especially on the social issues.
In 2001 he fought to prevent his Democratic legislature from raising taxes. He even went so far as to create the “Tax Me More” fund to mock liberals who thought taxes needed to be raised. Does no one remember that?
Later he was forced by Arkansas’ balanced-budget law, and the general slowdown in the economy, to raise taxes. Before he left office, the state had returned to the black and he had made arrangements to repeal important parts of that 2003 tax.
Huckabee is said to have “pardoned” 12 murderers. He shortened some of their sentences, not an outright pardon. He also executed about 16 murderers.
Huckabee’s immigration enforcement plan is the MOST detailed and tough of any candidates. Go compare them on their websites.
This is why Duncan Hunter, Mr. Border Fence himself, endorsed Huckabee over any other candidate.
Huckabee’s got more integrity, character, positivity and down-home appeal than any other candidate running.
He’s beat the Clinton political machine several times in Arkansas. He’s got the youth appeal to compete with Obama. Huckabee is our best shot for a truly conservative President in 2008.
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Gceres said:
“Yes I do believe Romney is a conservative for reasons I’ve layed out before…and if not at least he reaches out to conservatives…”
Heh. Your lack of conviction shows through. You’re basically saying he’s a panderer, and he has you half-convinced.
You cannot have conviction that Romney is truly conservative… because he is NOT. He let down his supporters on campaign promises made during his race for the Massachusetts governorship.
The question I have for Romney is this: How do you know he will support the same things two years from now as today?
Answer: You don’t.
McCain, at least, is fairly consistent, even if I don’t agree with him on many issues. You know what you are getting for the most part.
Huckabee is consistent (YES, look beyond the distorted, one-dimensional soundbite attacks). AND he is conservative. This is the candidate for true conservatives, people!
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Here are the details on the Tax Me More fund: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/602305/posts
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And another on the Tax Me More fund: http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed032602a.cfm
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Mitt Romney is a joke. I can’t believe anyone is taking him seriously. 62% of voters respond that they would not vote for him under any circumstances. And you think this clown is the ticket to saving the Republican party?
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It’s not everyday I see a Huckabee shill around these parts.
Huckabee is an immature, pandering politico whose attempt to exploit his religious background only lasted until the end of the Iowa Caucuses (read: one state).
He has a holier-than-thou attitude and references his religion all the time, then whines that others keep pestering him about it. He ever-so-innocently asks stupid “questions” about Mormonism to make subtle jabs at an opponent’s religion.
He raised taxes a net half million in his state and ballooned state spending.
He was a McCainiac/Bushie on immigration, then signed the NumbersUSA pledge right before the South Carolina primary. He took the FairTax charge in an attempt to cover up his tax-raising ways and to exploit a ready-to-go group of supporters (those who are diehard about the FairTax).
Try to criticize him, and he’ll get nasty or just downright childish (like saying Sen. Fred Thompson “looked like he needed some Metamucil.”). Look up some letters he wrote to reporters as Lieutenant Governor, they show an incredibly shallow guy who can’t play with the big dogs and can’t take criticism in a classy manner. The guy has the ego/slickness of Bill Clinton, the sensitivity of Al Sharpton, and the maturity of a 5-year-old.
Oh yeah, and the economic opinions of John Edwards.
Anything I missed?
I’m not even a Romney supporter, but Huckabee is a clown.
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Extensive documentation on Romney’s flip-flops, his actual record, and how he is the OPPOSITE of a “values” candidate: http://massresistance.org/docs/marriage/romney/record/
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Langley, I DEFY you to back up your charges about Huckabee being a tax raiser. Did you not pay any attention? He is the one who created the Tax Me More fund and fought hard against taxes until the state was about to lose critical programs.
Romney raised taxes MORE than Huckabee, calling them “fees” and “closing tax loopholes.” Tax freedom day was about the same in Arkansas after Huckabee’s 11 years in office. Tax freedom day in Massachusetts was 10 days LATER after Romney’s 4 years in office. (http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday/)
Romney just had the money to cover his tracks with the conservative think tanks and redirect their attention to attack the record of the REAL conservative.
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OK, so let me revise my statement. Yes, Huckabee was a “tax raiser” by the narrow definition of the word. But in context, and especially taken over his relatively long term, he not only cut taxes when he could, fought hard against raising taxes until it became absolutely necessary, he also cut spending wherever he could and streamlined government.
Critics will cite that he raised spending by 50% over his term. But again they distort. Most if not all of that came from population and economic growth. The population grew by 15% and per-capita wages grew by 50%. In comparison, spending across the 50 states went up by 98% during the SAME 11-year period.
Huckabee is a true fiscal conservative.
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Alan — You never responded to the substantive point. McCain was chosen in Florida by popular vote of Republicans, not by the party’s leadership or by an open primary. So, your problem is that you don’t like the viewpoint of people who belong to the Republican party?
Perhaps everyone should leave the party except people who agree with you on everything, then McCain wouldn’t win. Wait, then you’d be lucky to get enough votes to beat Mike Gravel.
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Romney’s a flip-flopper? Uh, no kidding. Myself and others on this blog have dedicated plenty of criticism to Gov. Romney.
That doesn’t make Huckabee the conservative savior that you claim he is. A true conservative wouldn’t sound like John Edwards and advocate for Big Government intervention in everyone’s lives.
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Publius… the opponents of McCain cannot answer why the pro-immigration candidate continues to win. Two things could explain this: First, the anti-immigration crowd is fall smaller than they claim it is. Second, the anti-immigration crowd is large, but its support is shallow in the sense that its not the most important issue for most people who are against the status quo or McCain’s policies. The attempt to make immigration into the 2008 version of gay marriage has tanked.
Alan… calm down please. Like it or not, Bush was middle of the road on immigration seeing his stance matches most of the polling of Americans on the subject unless you are getting your information from Numbers USA or some other xenophobic outlet.
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I hate to say it, but Publius is correct. You can’t complain about “the party abandoning you” when it is other voters like yourselves who are choosing McCain. You could complain if it was the party leadership who you frequently (and justly) deride, but it was other voters just like you.
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There is only one real major issue that Romney has “flipped” on…and that is on abortion…and it was to the right position!!!
Hucksterbee is WORSE than McCain…the real conservative? LOL….he’s a good Christian man…so was Jimmy Carter.
He’s a big government guy.
Look my original guy was Thompson…his campaign tanked for many reasons so now we are left with two liberals and a conservative (Romney).
If you want a Barry Goldwater style landslide defeat…vote for Hucksterbee.
If you want a smaller defeat and an end to the conservative movement dominance of the Republican Party….vote for John McCain.
If you want to beat Hillary and at the very least get a moderate conservative to conservative governance…vote for Romney.
It’s really that simple at this point.
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You are all forgetting two things though…one 17% of the GOP voters identified THEMSELVES as independents and they voted for McCain…those identifying themselves as Republicans voted for McCain.
McCain has not gathered more than 40% of the vote anywhere at all yet.
Hucksterbee is taking some of the evangelical vote that is anti-McCain
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It is an interesting electoral scenario because McCain is basically the frontrunner though getting a plurality of usually a third of the primary voters in the states that he wins.
The issue is not that “leaders” are abandoning us (that’s already happened, trust me) or that “fellow voters” are… the problem with the fellow voters is that up until this point there were simply too many candidates so McCain could skate by on name recognition and familiarity with a plurality of primary voters.
Case in point: McCain won fewer votes and a lower percentage in South Carolina this primary season than when he lost the state to then-Gov. Bush in the 2000 primary season.
At this point, the monsters of “Momentum” and “Inevitability” may rear their heads to push McCain towards the nomination, or the anti-McCain forces will firmly solidify behind Romney enough to push him over the finish line. We’ll have to wait and see what happens on Super Tuesday.
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“There is only one real major issue that Romney has “flipped” on…and that is on abortion…and it was to the right position!!!”
WRONG.
He’s flipped on:
- Gay rights
- Gun rights
- Admiration for Reagan
- Admiration for Huckabee
- Desire to go to Vietnam
- …
And on and on.
Come on, know who you are voting for! Romney is NOT a conservative at his core, he’s a conservative of convenience at the moment.
“Hucksterbee is WORSE than McCain…the real conservative? LOL….he’s a good Christian man…so was Jimmy Carter.”
This comparison is irritating beyond belief. If you look at his positions… I dare say you have NOT taken an honest look… you would find him the 180 degree opposite of Jimmy Carter in almost every respect.
“He’s a big government guy.”
Again, WHERE IS THE BEEF. This charge has been floating around but his actual positions are fairly conservative. On many issues, Romney’s own record is MORE big-government interventionist than Huckabee’s. His health plan for example. He MANDATED health insurance in Massachusetts. Huckabee doesn’t want to mandate health insurance, he wants to empower consumers and the free market, and correct imbalances created by the current goverment regulatory structure.
“If you want a Barry Goldwater style landslide defeat…vote for Hucksterbee.”
I would say that is more true of Romney. The Democrats are licking their chops… many are saying Romney would be their favorite to win the Republican nomination… because they can NAIL him on all his flip-flops.
“If you want to beat Hillary and at the very least get a moderate conservative to conservative governance…vote for Romney.”
No, Huckabee is the one who has run against the Clinton political machine (in Arkansas) and beat it time and again. Huckabee has the personal characteristics that the Clintons lack. Huckabee reaches the Reagan Democrats… I have talked to Democrats who would vote for Huckabee over Hillary in a heartbeat. If it is Obama… Huckabee is the only candidate who competes for the youth vote to the degree Obama does.
It’s really that simple at this point.
#
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Allen, for all your bloviating, you have yet to respond to any of the points I made earlier about Huckabee.
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Fine.
Bloviating is what you call it.
“Huckabee is an immature, pandering politico whose attempt to exploit his religious background only lasted until the end of the Iowa Caucuses (read: one state).”
Pandering certainly describes Romney, but Huckabee’s core is solid. An argument might be made by the cynical for pandering on immigration, but by that measure, I am a panderer because I also changed my position towards the right on this issue in the last year or two.
“He has a holier-than-thou attitude and references his religion all the time, then whines that others keep pestering him about it.”
Whining is in the ear of the beholder, just like “bloviating”.
“He raised taxes a net half million in his state and ballooned state spending.”
Huckabee fought HARD against tax increases in his state.
In 2001 the economy was down, the state budget was tight, and liberals were talking about raising taxes in Arkansas.
Huckabee mocked them by creating the “Tax Me More” fund. Remember that? It made it onto the national news.
He managed to cut $380 MILLION in spending before finally being forced to raise taxes in 2003 by the Arkansas balanced-budget law.
But before leaving office, he laid the groundwork for removing some of those taxes, as the state was now back in the black.
On spending, the charge is he raised spending by 50%. GASP! What a BIG GOVERNMENT SPENDER! Wait… it was over a 10-year period. Population went up 15%, per-capita income went up 50%.
And… spending across the 50 states went up by 98% in the same period. So by all these measures, Huckabee was OBJECTIVELY a fiscally conservative governor.
Here is more on the Tax Me More fund: http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed032602a.cfm
“He was a McCainiac/Bushie on immigration, then signed the NumbersUSA pledge right before the South Carolina primary.”
“He took the FairTax charge in an attempt to cover up his tax-raising ways”
Tax charge addressed above.
“Try to criticize him, and he’ll get nasty or just downright childish (like saying Sen. Fred Thompson “looked like he needed some Metamucil.”).”
Again, childish is in the eye of the beholder, and depends on whether you’ve made up your mind or not. It was just funny to us. Fred Thompson RIPPED Huckabee using false charges (”liberal” “blame-America-first” … etc.) which amounts to slander given his true record. And then he whines (yes, it is in the eye of the beholder) when Huckabee cracks a joke at his expense.
“Oh yeah, and the economic opinions of John Edwards.”
Huckabee’s rhetoric does make conservatives nervous. That has been a weak point. But showing concern for the common man is NOT the same as proposing the same things as a liberal. Look at Huckabee’s ACTUAL policy positions before you go comparing him to his opposite, John Edwards.
For all those who want to compare the two, go to OnTheIssues.org.
Anything I missed?
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Here is my piece on this:
I have plenty of issues with John McCain, but I will most certainly vote for him and support him if he is our nominee. I am not one to tow the Republican line either. In fact, I have never voted a straight R ticket in my life. I am usually about 60-40 R on my ballot. I will vote for third party candidates if I think they better reflect my interests and I will vote for Democrats if I think they are the better candidate. There are many conservative Democrats in the south, as there were in southwest Pennsylvania when I lived there. I will not sit out an election or vote for a Democrat simply out of spite because I don’t agree with who our nominee is. That’s just stupid. The fact of the matter is, I don’t think McCain is that bad of a nominee. There are plenty of things he has done to piss me off, but there are more things he has done that I have liked.
For those of you who say you’re going to sit out the election to “punish” the party, I have news for you. It’s not the party that is being punished; it’s you. If Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama get elected it’s you who is going to be punished by having your health care choices taken away from you and instead be authorized by the Federal Government. That punishes you, not the party. It is you who will get your taxes increased to pay for that expanded Socialism. That punishes you, not the party. It is you that will have your freedom stripped away with more Kelo rulings by a very left wing Supreme Court. That punishes you; not the party. Stop fooling yourselves.
I also find it quite hypocritical that those of you here screaming the end of the world over McCain somehow think that Romney is actually a viable alternative. He was adamantly pro-choice when he ran for Senate and Governor, but once he decides to run for President he has a “conversion” on the issue. He appointed Kathy Tuttman to the Massachusetts Superior Court. His health insurance mandate in Massachusetts is not working and the state has already let 10% of the non-insured off the hook because it’s too costly. He was against Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, now he supports it. In Oct. ‘94 he said being gay shouldn’t disclude someone from the Boy Scouts. He supported affirmative action when he ran for Senate and as governor. He supports the Assault Weapons Ban and then became a member of the NRA when he decided to run for President. He was for the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill last year. Now he is against it.
The guy is a phony. He is not a genuine conservative and he will get slaughtered in the general election because you can’t trust anything he says. He has changed positions more times than a weather vane in a tornado, so please stop acting like conservatism has just been doomed because he might lose the nomination.
And Allen Fuller, with all due respect, I can only laugh at your inference that Huckabee is the true conservative. The fact of the matter is, we don’t have one in this race, so it’s go with the best you’ve got. And Publius is correct, for once. The minority of conservatives that will sit out the election is not going to change the results. As someone pointed out, about half the country sits out every election and nothing has changed.
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Now, Langley or any others, do you want to discuss the SUBSTANCE of what I have said?
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OK, Sam you have a point in saying that there is no “true” conservative… if you want to be a purist. I give you that. Nevertheless, we can’t really agree on what a true conservative is. Is it what Rush says it is? Or Paul Weyrich? Who gets to define conservatism?
But by objective measures, at least, Romney is less solid than either McCain and Huckabee, so you don’t know WHERE he stands. Judging by his record he’s more of a moderate than he claims right now.
And we know McCain is not very conservative. At least we know more or less where he stands.
Huckabee is conservative certainly on social issues… you can’t challenge that with any credibility. Economically and on foreign policy he may be less purely conservative but he is FAR from the liberal he has been painted to be.
You can judge for yourself. Mike’s own stand on the issues: http://my.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Issues.Home
OnTheIssues.org ranks Huckabee as a “hard-core conservative” and lists in detail his positions on all the major issues. Anyone who wants to call him a “liberal” or “not conservative” should have to explain this away.
Overall, I maintain that Huckabee is the MOST conservative candidate currently in the running.
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You actually had to resort to two of his “flip-flops” being “Admiration of Huckabee” & “Admiration of Ronald Reagan”….seriously?
For the record he has never flip-flopped on gay rights…he has never supported gay marriages but does support a minimal of civil rights protects for gays.
Jimmy Carter and Huckabee: Perfect Together
Carter - born again Christian
Huckabee - born again Christian
Carter - ran as an outsider
Huckabee - running as an outsider
Carter - critical of US foreign policy
Huckabee - critical of US foreign policy
Carter - raised taxes in Georgia to pay for education programs
Huckabee - raised taxes in Arkansas to pay for education programs
Carter - grew the Georgia budget significantly
Huckabee - grew the Arkansas budget significantly
Carter - sympathetic to inmates
Huckabee - pardoned over 1,000 felons
Carter - spoke of moral values
Huckabee - speaks of moral values
Carter - spoke of malaise and government’s role in fixing that malaise
Huckabee - speaks of general feeling that something in the country is wrong and offers government role as the fix
Carter - appealed to populist sentiments
Huckabee - uses populist rhetoric
Carter - offered amnesty to draft dodgers
Huckabee - offered de facto amnesty to illegal immigrants with instate tuition for their kids
Carter- said people opposed to affirmative action were racially motivated
Huckabee- says many opponents of illegal immigration are racially motivated.
Want me to go on with the comparisons or is it sinking in?
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How about a little mental exercise here….guess the person…
Supported pro-abortion laws, then changed position to pro-life.
Supported large tax increase and then cut taxes significantly
Supported amnesty for illegals and then decided to oppose further amnesties.
Appointed two iberal judges before appointing the most conservative judge
Any guesses?
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Sam wrote, “I will not sit out an election or vote for a Democrat simply out of spite because I don’t agree with who our nominee is. That’s just stupid.”
That’s a stupid characterization of the position held by conservatives like me who refuse to vote for McCain. I wouldn’t sit out an election just because I don’t agree with who our nominee is. My ideal nominee was Tancredo. I would’ve gone for Hunter or Thompson. I don’t like Romney very much, but I’d settle for him. I’d vote for Paul. I might even consider settling for Huckabee. But I don’t agree with the GOP’s choice of any of those nominees. So obviously my disagreement wouldn’t prevent me from voting.
It’s not the fact that I disagree with the McCain nomination. It’s the fact that McCain has pissed me off on every single issue I care about, and has such a penchant for joining the Democrats and pissing off conservatives that I know that to vote for him is to vote for high blood pressure, because that’s what McCain would give me and every other conservative as long as he’s president. McCain is not remotely conservative. He’s not even a Republican, except in name. He’s done more to thwart conservative goals than Arlen Specter.
There’s talk about a McCain-Giuliani ticket. As if we haven’t lurched far enough to the left just by nominating Bush and then McCain; now we have to worry about this succession of liberal Republican presidents: Bush, McCain, Giuliani. No way. I’m drawing the line here. This is for all you party apparatchiks: I’ve had enough RiNO presidents, and I won’t settle for any more. I don’t demand a perfect conservative, but I do demand someone who’s not going to piss me off for fun all the time. And here’s the lesson this party must learn–there is a consequence to nominating RiNOs, and that consequence is the loss of my support for good. If enough conservatives have the guts to demand that their party stop treating them the way the Democrats treat black people, then it’s the GOP and not conservatives who’ll be hurting, because then the GOP will realize that it’ll face extinction if it continues to disregard its base.
Get this through your head: conservatives don’t need the GOP. The GOP needs conservatives. Without us, the Republican Party will DIE, as it deserves to, after all the years of betrayal. When conservatives sit out the election, they don’t suffer, the GOP suffers. Hell, conservatives are doing better with the current Congress than they were when Republicans were in control. It’s Republicans, not conservatives, who suffered from the outcome of the 2006 elections.
If McCain is the nominee, I will walk into the voting booth and pull the lever for anyone but him. If you Republicans think you can continue to antagonize conservatives and get away with it, you’re in for a rude awakening. McCain is broke, and when he gets the nomination, the media will finally turn on him to get the Democrat elected, because by then it’ll be safe, and he won’t be able to raise enough money to fight all the negative press they’ll generate. He won’t be able to raise enough, because conservatives won’t contribute.
You all think McCain will win because the polls show only him beating Hillary. But the Democrats will look at those polls, and they’ll seriously consider voting for Obama. And even if they don’t, just remember that the polls used to say (only a few months ago) that even Ron Paul could beat Hillary. Michael Dukakis was leading George Bush in the polls. Don’t be so stupid as to think that McCain is going to win because the polls now say he will. A few months ago, the polls showed the McCain campaign on life support. Polls change like the winds. All that is certain is this: when McCain gets the nomination, the Bolsheviki in the press will fire on him, and he’ll go down because there won’t be enough monetary support coming in to buy the good press that he’s been lately getting for free. You’ll regret that you supported him. Mark my words.
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Bravo Alan!!! I agree 100%
Another addition here is that in many, many respects McCain is worse for us than Hillary….why?
Because when McCain pushes a liberal agenda, the Republicans will not be as vociferously opposed to his agenda such as Clinton whom they would unite in opposition to…
So we’d probably wind up in the end having policy moved even further to the left with McCain than Clinton.
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Gceres, I call your comparisons BOGUS.
You actually had to resort to two of his “flip-flops” being “Admiration of Huckabee” & “Admiration of Ronald Reagan”….seriously?
Sure. Romney claimed in the 90’s that he was an “independent during the time of Reagan…” and that he “didn’t want to go back to the time of Reagan.” Basically, he was pandering to his liberal audience at the time. Now, he is the inheritor of the Reagan mantle to hear him talk about it.
On Huckabee, he said in 2005 that Huckabee would make a “great president”. Now what do you think he is saying?
Basically the point is that he can’t be relied upon for anything. These are examples of how he just uses people for his own advancement.
“For the record he has never flip-flopped on gay rights…he has never supported gay marriages but does support a minimal of civil rights protects for gays.”
In February 2005, The American Spectator observed of Romney, “He is pro-choice and, aside from the marriage debate, generally in agreement with gay-rights advocates.”
- American Spectator, 2/23/2005
So technically he may not have been in favor of gay marriage… but his actions say otherwise. He forced the implementation of gay marriages when many felt that was not necessary nor legally required… in fact it may have been illegal.
Now, on to your comparison:
“Jimmy Carter and Huckabee: Perfect Together”
“Carter - born again Christian
Huckabee - born again Christian”
So, what are you saying, every born-again Christian is like Carter? No sale. BOGUS.
“Carter - ran as an outsider
Huckabee - running as an outsider”
Reagan ran as an outsider. Reagan like Carter? BOGUS.
“Carter - critical of US foreign policy
Huckabee - critical of US foreign policy”
The foreign policy of 1970s was totally different than the foreign policy of the 2000s. BOGUS.
“Carter - raised taxes in Georgia to pay for education programs
Huckabee - raised taxes in Arkansas to pay for education programs”
And… raised Arkansas education performance from below average to 8th in the nation. I’m GLAD he DID HIS JOB. What do you want, for the schools not to be funded? They were in a shambles after Bill and Hillary… Huckabee fixed them.
BOGUS comparison.
“Carter - grew the Georgia budget significantly
Huckabee - grew the Arkansas budget significantly”
This is a lie or at best a distortion, as I pointed out earlier. The period in question is over 10 years, during which the budget grew TWICE as fast in the 50 states.
“Carter - sympathetic to inmates
Huckabee - pardoned over 1,000 felons”
That is a blatant lie. He did NOT “pardon” 1,000 “felons”. He commuted some sentences (made them lighter), granted some clemencies, and so on.
He also gave the order to execute 16 of them. We can question some of his decisions, but to equate him with Carter, who probably doesn’t even support the death penalty, is FALSE.
BOGUS.
“Carter - spoke of moral values
Huckabee - speaks of moral values”
Again, these are irrelevancies. Do you want to equate everyone who speaks of moral values with Carter?
BOGUS.
“Carter - spoke of malaise and government’s role in fixing that malaise
Huckabee - speaks of general feeling that something in the country is wrong and offers government role as the fix”
You are RIGHT in saying Huckabee speaks of the feeling that something is wrong in this country, because it is.
You are wrong to suggest that Huckabee is offering the government as a fix for everything. You need to examine his policy positions and back it up with specifics.
BOGUS.
“Carter - appealed to populist sentiments
Huckabee - uses populist rhetoric”
Reagan was also described as a populist. He reached out to the common working people. If you want to compare him to Carter on this, why can’t I compare him to Reagan?
BOGUS.
“Carter - offered amnesty to draft dodgers
Huckabee - offered de facto amnesty to illegal immigrants with instate tuition for their kids”
Not his best moment, I agree. But again, like many of us, Huckabee has over the last few years become more strict on this issue. On the McCain-Kennedy bill last year, he commented that it “simply wouldn’t work”. His current plan is more detailed and more strict than any other candidate’s, if you compare them from their respective websites.
“Carter- said people opposed to affirmative action were racially motivated
Huckabee- says many opponents of illegal immigration are racially motivated.”
Huckabee said SOME opponents of illegal immigration are racially motivated. So? My local radio talk show host– and you can’t find a more hopped-up guy about illegal immigration– says the same thing… BECAUSE IT’S TRUE. They exist and although small in number, I have talked with elderly people who definitely don’t want “more of them brown folks” in the country.
I want to be strict on the border, but we don’t need racists latching onto this issue.
“Want me to go on with the comparisons or is it sinking in?”
Yes, it’s sinking in how weak the charges are. Can’t you do better than that? I said bring on the SUBSTANCE not the irrelevant comparisons.
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Gceres,
Your guessing game could be any of a number of people. I’m guessing maybe Reagan, or you may be talking about Romney.
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Now, why is it that Romney is “conservative”… I want someone to defend that to me.
Is it because he says conservative things today? Ask yourself a question: How do you know he will do as he says, 2 years from now?
Answer: Judging by his record, you DON’T know.
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Reagan….so I suppose now the anti-Romney…he’s a “flip-flopper” people….will start telling us Reagan was not a true conservative either?
Romney has at least flip-flopped if you insist on that term to conservative positions…McCain has a record of supporting liberal positions and has not even attempting to change them to conservative positions.
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All I’m saying with all of this is… Give Huckabee another look. He’s not the liberal he’s accused of being. He’s a core conservative, though not extreme or in-your-face about it.
In comparison with Romney, who doesn’t seem to HAVE a core, I’d pick Huckabee any day.
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Read up further for his conservative record…a gave a brief synopsis….you would actually be very hard pressed to point out many liberal accomplishments of his…he may have used liberal rhetoric in the past but his actual governance…which matters…is conservative.
McCain and Hucksterbee are the exact opposite…they’ve always used conservative rhetoric but have governed and voted as liberals.
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And I’m NOT going for McCain, for the same reasons as all of you.
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Gceres,
You can’t say Romney governed as a liberal and Huckabee governed as a liberal, just like that, and get away with it. That is a lie. Back it up.
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Sorry, that Romney governed as a “conservative”. Hasty typing there.
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Well at least that’s good…
Look, if push came to shove I’d pull the lever for Hucksterbee..not McCain though…
but he really sincerely is NOT conservative….Romney is at the very least to the right of George W Bush….Hucksterbee is to the left.
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It’s further up in this thread…already backed it up….
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Alan –
I repeat my question for a third time. You write about “the lesson this party must learn” and continue to write about punishing “the party” and “the party” mistreating you.
The “party” did not select John McCain. McCain was selected by VOTERS — by people just like you.
There’s no massive conspiracy here. He won the most votes. How else do you propose we determine the winner? By who stays in Alan’s good graces?
Go back and rewrite your entire piece, replacing “party” with “the majority of voters” and see how much sense you make.
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No one can really dig into Huckabee’s record and come up with real liberal positions. All they fall back on are these distorted attacks I’ve discussed already.
“Ah, uh, he’s a tax and spender.”
No, he was fiscally conservative, fought taxes at every turn, set up the “Tax Me More” fund, but was forced to raise taxes in the end by the balanced budget law after nothing more could get cut.
“OK, uh, he’s soft on crime.”
He may have granted more clemencies and commutations than any other governor around him, but look at the cases he handled and you’ll find he was mostly right in granting those. Many cases were small-time crimes that were hindering people from advancing in their career… Romney had such a case. A guy who as a kid shot someone with a BB gun, but then went on to be an Iraq war veteran, came back and couldn’t get a job as a police officer because of that old record. Would Romney pardon him? NO. The people that Huckabee gave leniency to had a 10% recidivism rate. Compare that to the 70% recidivism rate of the prison population at large, and he had a pretty good (NOT PERFECT) sense of judgment.
“OK, well, he sounds like John Edwards.”
Well, show me where he would DO the things that John Edwards wants to do. There are some “populist-sounding” things I think most conservatives should agree on. Free trade is good, but it should be fair. Foreign countries shouldn’t get to dump cheap goods on our market by using their tax structure and monetary policy to create an uneven playing field. (How many American cars do you think are sold in Japan?).
And so on. It’s just mindless soundbite accusation one after the other.
Come on people, get beyond this shallowness. Think for yourselves. You may find Huckabee is the best candidate we have.
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“It’s further up in this thread…already backed it up….”
You mean your bogus comparison to Carter? I couldn’t find anything else that remotely looks like solid evidence for Huckabee governing as a liberal… not that your comparisons were even close…
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You say “Hucksterbee” is to the left of Bush. How do you know? Because you heard a pundit say so?
Go to OnTheIssues.org and see how “liberal” Huckabee really is.
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Look Hucksterbee is a nice guy…and he’s funny….but he’s a big government conservative if you want to insist on calling him a conservative.
Why?
Club for Growth:
“Governor Huckabee says he is a fiscal conservative,” Club for Growth President Pat Toomey said, “but his ten-year economic-policy record as the governor of Arkansas is mixed, at best. His history includes numerous tax hikes, ballooning government spending, and increased regulation. To be sure, Governor Huckabee’s record displays an occasional deference to a pro-growth philosophy, but that is only a small slice of a much bigger picture. The Club for Growth feels citizens deserve a full picture of where Governor Huckabee stands on the critical economic issues of the day.”
As governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee had a hand in twice as many pardons and commutations as his three predecessors combined.
(www.cbsnews.com)
Arkansas Leader on pardons and commutations:
Here are the figures for neighboring states since 1996, when Huckabee took office (and keep in mind the population of these states is nearly 20 times ours):
___ >> Louisiana – 213.
___ >> Mississippi – 24.
___ >> Missouri – 79.
___ >> Oklahoma – 178.
___ >> Tennessee – 32.
___ >> Texas – 98 (includes 36 inmates released because they were convicted on drug charges with planted evidence).
___ Total: 624 vs. Huckabee’s 703.
According to the Tax Foundation, the state and local tax burden on the average Arkansan increased from 10.1 per cent to 11.3 per cent under Huckabee. When he came into office in 1996, Arkansas ranked 30th in the nation as the state with the highest taxes. When he left at the beginning of this year, it had risen to 13th.
The Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration has confirmed that there were 90 tax cuts in the period 1995 to 2005, reducing revenues by $378 million. But many of these tax cuts were very narrowly tailored. A list assembled by the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette included the following:
# Exempting Arkansas Symphony Orchestra from sales tax. Total revenues foregone: $20,000
# An income tax deduction for organ donation: $76,000
# Exempting county fairs from special events tax: $15,000.
Offsetting these tax cuts were at least 21 tax increases, including repeated tax hikes on tobacco, alcohol, increases in the sales tax, and a 3 per cent “income tax surcharge.” The tax hikes brought in a total of $883 million between 1995 and 2003.
(Washington Post Factchecker is source)
- In 2005, Huckabee was faced with a bill that would deny state benefits to illegal immigrants. He opposed it. “[Illegal immigrants] pay sales taxes on their groceries. They pay fuel taxes. If they’re using a fake Social Security number, they’re paying Social Security taxes and will never receive any benefit,” said Huckabee. Speaking of the bills primary backers, Huckabee said, “It would be closer to the truth to say [illegal immigrants are] subsidizing Joe McCutchen and Jim Holt more than the other way around.” Huckabee added a line that would warm any liberal’s heart. “Something that’s not worth sharing is not worth celebrating,” Huckabee said. “This is the kind of country that opens its doors. This bill expresses an un-American attitude.”
- In the spring of 2007, Huckabee told Real Clear Politics, “When people say, ‘They’re taking our jobs’—I used to hear that as Governor—and I started asking this question, ‘Can you name me any person, give me their name, who can’t get a job plucking a chicken or picking a tomato or tarring a roof that would like to do that work?’… And I’d hear ‘Well, it’s a lot of people,’ and I said, ‘No, no, don’t tell me it’s a lot of people… Tell me their names. Take a few hours. Go get them. Give me their names.’ I never, ever, had a person who could come up with the name of a person… so much of it was more about emotion than it was about the reality.” In that interview Huckabee did support a fence, and opposed amnesty.
(Mother Jones blog)
* Raised the minimum wage in April 2006 from $5.15 to $6.25 an hour and encouraged Congress to take the same initiative on a national level, a proposal that President Bush and most congressional GOP members oppose[51]
* Sought to take revenue from his tax hike proposal to be used on economic development projects in 2002[52]
* Threatened to investigate price-gouging after 9/11 if gasoline prices went up too high[53]
* Ordered regulatory agencies in Arkansas to investigate price-gouging in the nursing home industry[54]
* Signed a bill into law that would prevent companies from raising their prices a mere 10% ahead of a natural disaster; services like roof repair and tree removal were targeted[55]
I can go on if you wish….please take the time to actually examine his record…he is NOT a conservative at all!!!! He just sounds like one…it’s the exact opposite with Romney!
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All I’m trying to do is to get people to question what they’ve heard, and think for themselves. If you honestly do that and come to an honestly different conclusion than I have, then I can’t complain.
I just think we’ve listened to third-hand opinions, many of which started from attack ads, and we’ve also let ourselves form first impressions based on Huckabee’s rhetoric, which I admit makes conservatives uncomfortable at first. But dig in for yourself… with an open mind, see what you find.
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Just did…read his record of “acheivements”….they are all liberal…read Romney’s record of acheivements…they are mostly conservative…there is no real comparison my friend…look we are both conservatives obviously and need to stop McCain, but don’t blindly vote for the guy Hucksterbee because he’s nice, funny and talks like a conservative…please, please research his record…and then please list actually specific examples of conservative things he’s DONE not said or supported.
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Oh, great, citing the Club for Growth.
The Club for Growth and other such organizations may be great overall, but they are not infallible. Nor are they free of political agendas.
Look, Romney spread around LARGE sums of money to conservative organizations like the Club for Growth, as far back as 2005. Wonder why they don’t criticize his own tax increases? Their own figures, if stripped of editorializing, show Romney’s record to be just as “bad” or worse on taxes than Huckabee’s.
The Club for Growth says that his conservative record was just a “small slice of a much larger picture” that was more liberal. In fact if anything, his tax raising was a small slice of an overall conservative, tax-fighting record. I addressed this in my earlier posts.
Why don’t they say this about Romney? Follow the money.
The Club for Growth mentions a 3% surcharge on the income tax. By the way, Huckabee laid the groundwork for the 3 percent income tax surcharge to be dropped at the end of his term, after the state’s budget was back in the black.
On his pardons and commutations, again, the figure is high, but how many cases do you hear about on TV? Only one, the Dumond case. Although he wasn’t perfect, Huckabee’s record on choosing the right people to grant leniency was quite good. I pointed this out earlier… the recidivism rate was FAR better than that of the average prison population.
On this same “soft on crime” tack. Arkansas had a prison funding crisis at the time. They were even talking about letting out MORE criminals onto the streets, but Huckabee made sure they got the funding to keep dangerous criminals off the streets. I don’t think he would have been able to without raising taxes somewhat. Huckabee granting this large number of clemencies, commutations and pardons was part of an effort to find the people on their best behavior and let them get out a bit earlier, so that prison resources could be dedicated to the worst criminals. Again, look at most of these and they were for minor crimes.
In the very text you cite about Huckabee’s immigration position: “In that interview Huckabee did support a fence, and opposed amnesty.” So his position is still consistent with that time. We don’t want amnesty, we want the borders enforced, but Huckabee’s point is that we can’t treat immigrants like dirt either. And again, his position has become more hard-line since then, like many of ours.
Why else do you think Duncan Hunter, Mr. Border Fence himself, would endorse Huckabee if he was such an “Open Borders” guy? It’s ridiculous and distorted.
Yes, I HAVE taken the time to investigate his record. You copied and pasted a bunch of hit research by people with an agenda.
Romney is no conservative… probably LESS so… if you use the same standards.
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“The “party” did not select John McCain. McCain was selected by VOTERS — by people just like you.”
Certainly not by voters like me and I suspect Alan either…
Let’s deal in facts:
He won 39%…a plurality to be sure but NOT a “majority of voters” as was stated
Two states had majorities on the GOP side…Nevada and Wyoming…both were won by Romney.
Exit polls:
The 17% identifying themselves as Independents:
McCain - 43% Romney - 24%
Those describing themselves only as Republicans:
McCain - 33% Romney - 33%
Hucksterbee’s share of the evangelicals elected McCain:
Hucksterbee - 29%, McCain - 30%, Romney - 29%
Exit polls:
Conservatives (61% of the vote):
McCain - 29% Romney 37%
Moderates (28% of the vote):
McCain - 43% Romney 33%
Liberals (11% of the vote):
McCain - 49% Romney - 21%
So know…a majority of voters just like us did not support McCain.
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Gceres —
Fine, so what you object to is the composition of the Republican party, not the way the Republican party is managed. That’s a very different matter. The moderates in your party should leave or shouldn’t be allowed to vote in primaries?
If the Republican party were composed only of people “like you” then it would be pretty small and your nominee would probably be consigned to Ralph Nader status.
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Publius… Alan cannot answer your question because he cannot help the fact that McCain won a closed primary in a generally Republican state. He did not win because of the party machine backing him because the Bush and Cheney clans were supporting Romney at least indirectly. McCain won because average Republicans went out there and cast their ballots for him.
If anything, I think we are seeing something of a reaction against the activist element of the party by the average voter who finds the activists to be out of control.
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Not sure why, but my comments are not getting through anymore. Maybe the admin got tired of my “bloviating”?
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… Just tried again… Perhaps my comment is deemed ’spam’… that’s funny.
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What I was going to post was a long list of Huckabee’s conservative and practical achievements, since that was asked for. Many of them I cited from Wikipedia. Perhaps WordPress didn’t like the citations.
At any rate, the record is what it is. Look at Wikipedia for yourself, and OnTheIssues.org. You won’t find a perfect candidate, no one is. You’ll find some of the same warts that have been pounced upon and distorted by his opponents. But you’ll also find plenty of positive, conservative and practical achievements.
The main thing is, stop calling him a “liberal” because that just flies in the face of the facts.
“please, please research his record…”
- I have researched it and like what I found, overall. If only you would do the same… with an open mind, and be aware of the agendas of those who have distorted his record… that’s all I ask.
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Well we will have to agree to disagree…when Hucksterbee was first rising…I actually was excited because I really liked his debate style and his honesty…then I exhaustively researched his rhetoric with his record…and I don’t like it much at all beyond his support for the 2nd amendment, his pro-life stance, and his trustworthiness.
Like I said, I can hold my nose and vote for him. And perhaps the liberal label is a tad bit unfair (not at all unfair with McCain mind you) but I equally feel strongly that he is no conservative. Moderate at best.
Beyond that, I do not believe he can beat Hillary at all. But that’s a whole ‘nother debate…no need for that :-).
Let’s just pray McCain is stopped…we can probably reach common ground on that.
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Decent article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/isromneyfightingthelastwar
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2 down…. 4 to go
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Publius….
What I saying is we have a center-left/left-wing party…it’s called the Democratic Party…we do not need two parties that push global warming nonsense, amnesty, higher taxes, reckless spending, more Medicare and Medicaid expansion, limits on free speech, opposition to drilling for oil, environmental extremism, taking of human life for expediency, etc….
We need a solid, strong conservative/center-right party. McCain will not be reflective of this kind of party…he’ll be the former.
And you honestly believe that in a two-man race, McCain would have won? I do not believe that.
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Publius, you remain the idiot I remember and despise you for being.
First, McCain won New Hampshire and South Carolina only because of independents voting in the primary. And even then, with their support, he only won a small plurality.
Second, McCain didn’t win Florida because Republicans prefer him; he’s winning because Republicans are being told that he’s the only one who can beat Hillary. (But I admit I’m sure it helped that McCain repeatedly lied about Romney’s positions.)
Third, while a minority of Republicans actually do prefer McCain to the other candidates, they’re not representative of Republican voters generally. If you could somehow put McCain up against “Not McCain,” McCain would be buried in a landslide. The rank-and-file who make up the party can’t stand St. John of Arizona. Listen to talk radio and hear what the callers say about McCain. They hate him almost as much as I hate you for your asinine comments, which I usually ignore (hence not answering your question until now).
To complain about the people who voted for McCain is not to complain about the voters generally, because MCCAIN DOESN’T HAVE THE SUPPORT OF VOTERS GENERALLY. How $&%@ing dare you act as if my criticism of a minority of Republican voters should, in principle, be a criticism of the whole grass-roots of the GOP, you moron?!
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Watching the debate right now…how can anyone say that Romney would not wipe the floor with her? McCain’s demeanor and answers are bringing back memories of Dole 1996.
McCain on the attacks on Romney’s Iraq quote is so blantantly a lie and dirty tricks…what a weasel….even less likely to ever consider voting for McCain now.
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