CPAC unites behind McCain … but a big test remains
Written by Alex on February 7th, 2008Unlike many predicted, McCain was not booed. The crowd went wild, over and over again. The introductions by Senator Allen and Senator Coburn set the tone for the speech.
McCain positioned himself here not as as a Republican stalwart, but as a man independent of his party on issues that matter to conservatives. He pointed out that he opposed Medicare part D, that he has opposed spending increases and earmarks, that he has been strong on limited government.
The general mood here seems to be that while McCain isn’t great, we can accept him as the nominee. There will be no revolt among the conservative movement… with one major question still ahead of us:
Who will McCain choose as his runningmate?
Who he selects will send a message to the conservative movement of whether he takes us for granted or whether he acknowledges a need to reassure us about his candidacy. There are a number of great conservatives who would make fantastic Vice-Presidential nominees. There are also a number of RINOs who would be absolutely terrible.
I’ve been told that certain leaders of the conservative movement will begin campaigning tomorrow for McCain to select a movement conservative as the Vice-Presidential nominee. The conservative blogosphere can use this as an opportunity to get involved in an organized manner behind a candidate.
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The perfect choice, in my opinion, is CA State Senator Tom McClintock. He would appease Conservatives and not scare off Independents as the Huckster would.
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I think McCain will be sorely disappointed when he finds out that the rest of the conservative movement won’t march off a cliff with him to the beat of CPAC’s drum.
CPAC will applaud for Bush tomorrow, so these are not your typical conservatives, they are merely beltway-cons.
McCain has avoided CPAC for years despite their overtures towards him, now that he is running for president he shows up and sings the song everyone wants to hear. So like good little soldiers the beltway-cons applaud and promise to support him and nothing changes in this country.
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Amen Mike.
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write in romney
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I’m not convinced that supporting McCain is marching off a cliff. I think the reality is that we should measure him up not against a hypothetical perfect movement conservative candidate but against the candidates we’ve had in the past. I think there’s a case to be made that McCain is a better conservative then Bush and his father both, as well as Bob Dole.
Remember, I was as opposed to McCain as anyone as long as we had a viable conservative alternative (Fred). But now we don’t. He will be the nominee. The best we can do is push for him to name a movement conservative as the VP nominee who will be “next in line” for the next time around. I will write a post tomorrow with the names of several people I have in mind.
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There is really only one choice that McCain can make to blunt the Democrats…J.C. Watts…
but even then, I’m writing in Romney…
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He can’t pick a state senator as his running mate.
My choice? MARK SANFORD! If he picks Huckabee, I’m not voting for President. He could pick Romney, but I doubt seriously he’d do that.
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Sanford would be an awesome choice and I think is a good possibility just because it makes sense.
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“I think the reality is that we should measure him up not against a hypothetical perfect movement conservative candidate but against the candidates we’ve had in the past.”
Well Alex I think that is a good point, but I would much rather measure McCain as he is, by his own past actions and statements. Under that rubric I can’t support the man. I wouldn’t vote for Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Hillary or Obama, so why would I support McCain? The lesser of two evils is still evil and I won’t attach my name or vote to something that is bad for this country. If this means that an even worse administration comes to power then the GOP should have considered that alternative before they put up a man who cannot win the general election without conservative support.
Maybe one day the people of this country will learn that you get burned when you play with fire. Or maybe not in which case we won’t have a country much longer so it won’t really matter.
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the GOP should have considered that alternative before they put up a man who cannot win the general election without conservative support.
That’s a two way street, you know.
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“That’s a two way street, you know.”
Absolutely. Unlike them though I have no problem watching the GOP go down in smoking flames, even if it means misery for the rest of the nation.
If this is a game of chicken I can promise you I won’t blink.
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Who are you playing chicken with exactly? As I have mentioned in another thread, it wasn’t the party apparatus or the powers that be that nominated McCain. It was your next door neighbor and your coworker at the office .
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No actually Sam that isn’t exactly true….McCain has yet to carry the conservatives that are the base. Beyond that, his momentum started in New Hampshire and South Carolina by winning non-Republicans…ie. Independents.
Beyond even that, in most of the states he won outside the Northeast, he failed to capture even 40%….the conservatives failed to get behind Romney so many, many evangelicals stuck with Huckabee.
I think you’d be hard pressed to not say that without Huckabee, it would have been McCain dropping out today and not Romney.
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He was jeered one time –when he brought up immigration.
But McCain handled it pretty well, even used it to make a strong point about his stand and his refusal to bow down once he made up his mind.
Even I was impress with the speech–but to much platitudes to “conservatism”. Yet, he showed an independence streak–one that I like.
Fiscal conservative, anti-corruption–you got this pro-government voter looking at him again!!
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The guy is a centrist with Hawkish foreign policies.
Get over it! He is not going to reshape “conservatism”–he is going to reinvent “centrism”!
That is why I hate the idea of you guys nominating him.
By the way, what is a VP going to do in his administration? Remind McCain what conservativism is?
McCain is his own man–your VP choice will “hold a bucket of spit” for four years! By then, the country could swing to Dems in the executive while Rep in the Congress.
Of course, I prefer that kind of balance.
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“. . . it wasn’t the party apparatus or the powers that be that nominated McCain. It was your next door neighbor and your coworker at the office .”
Again you are right. The GOP (that includes the establishment and the citizens) needs to learn that they are free to march off to war in November without conservatives, but they are unlikely to win. If the centrists and independents want to send McCain up against the Democrats that is their right to do so, but don’t expect my support just because I should fear the consequences of a Hillary/Obama victory.
Conservatives will call the McCain bluff and let the Dems win.
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Sam, I think you are correct to point out that McCain’s current standing comes from the support of rank-and-file Republican voters. His wins aren’t coming from the efforts of the GOP establishment or the party leadership — they’re coming from Joe and Jane Republican voter. And, we need to respect this. This is how our democratic republic works.
McCain’s vote totals show that “movement conservatives” do not — at least in Winter 2008 — make up a majority of the Republican electorate. Seems to me that, currently, it’s more old-school Veterans and military types and moderate Republicans who now hold sway.
As a Ron Paul supporter, I’d add that this wasn’t my most desired outcome either. I’m also at a loss as to where to go now.
But, these are the cards we’ve been dealt.
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In many respects, I see the rank-and-file support McCain receives as a sign of a reaction against what I refer to as an “Activist Class” within the GOP. This is partially justified as I think some unhappy with the Bush administration blame the activists and party hacks for the unquestioning support they gave the President even as he made many mistakes. I would not blame people on this blog for walking off the cliff with Bush, but there is a perception that archconservative now equals Bush within the electorate as a whole.
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The VP is so important with McCain, because he’s only going to serve one term (per rumors). His VP choice will likely be the Presidential nominee in 2012.
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I just love the temper tantrums, Mike and Gceres. It reminds me of the Dennis Kucinich / Ralph Nader wing of my own party. You’re on the fringe, and you’re infuriated that you can’t get enough support within your own party for your candidates to win. As Mike admitted, you’re playing “chicken” with the rest of your party, who do not support your positions. Nobody cares anymore, and so you join the fringe lunatics along with the Naderites.
A few of you will take your ball and go home. And who knows? Every once in awhile it may throw an election, like Nader in 2000, but it won’t fundamentally change anything.
The fact is that your extremist and deranged views no longer have a home in either political party. Bye Bye Reagan conservatism.
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You clearly don’t realize that the “fringe” you refer to sees John McCain as not very different from the Democratic candidates that you favor.
Surely even you would want an election where there is real differences in principles and policy ideas between the candidates, besides the War?
Nah, you wouldn’t want that, because it might mean that the ideals of liberals and Democrats might actually be challenged by a real conservative.
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Conservatives have to decide how best to get control back of the party.
I think it has to be done from within–we need to become more active in the party; we need to express a coherent conservative philosophy that the common man can understand.
Personally I don’t think McCain in the White House helps or hurts that effort, so I will vote for McCain in the general election.
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In many respects, the conservative wing of the party needs to some distance from the presidency for once. The closeness it has had with the Bush administration has in many respects hurt the cause. While I would not call Bush a conservative to say the least, the public perceives him as one and thus the dislike of him tarnishes the movement as a whole. Maybe electing someone like McCain will help give the movement some distance from the office while still retaining some level of connection you would never have with a Democrat.
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The American Conservative Union gives McCain a lifetime rating of 82, and Clinton a 9.
The two of them have fundamentally different core philosophies on the size and role of government, and McCain’s is substantially more conservative. The fact that you’re willing to throw this overboard and describe them as “not very different” over some nonsense squabbles shows you just how far on the fringe you are.
I want to see differences reflected in the two candidates to the extent that there are differences in the mainstream of American political opinion. The core of the Republican party is apparently composed of moderates (actually fiscal conservatives but without the rabid frothing at the mouth about garbage like immigration). It seems silly to nominate someone not representative of the party membership’s values just to have a good horse race.
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Mike - “The GOP (that includes the establishment and the citizens) needs to learn that they are free to march off to war in November without conservatives, but they are unlikely to win.”
LOL. Yeah, if you say so. As I said before, it cuts both ways. What makes you think you hold all the cards? You think conservatives got Reagan two landslide wins? Ever hear the term “Reagan Democrat?” Reagan won overwhelmingly in both of this elections because he appealed to the whole party, the social conservatives, the moderates, the libertarians, the fiscal conservatives, etc. It was that coalition that put him over the top.
When it comes down to Election Day the good majority of the Republican base will come out for McCain because we are all intelligent enough to realize that allowing Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, the most liberal of all 100 Senators, win the election does not advance conservatism and will be bad for this country in the long term.
If you want to act like a crybaby and throw a tantrum because you didn’t get everything you wanted that is your perogative, but the amount of people like yourself are a small minority and if you think that you staying home will offset the independents and cross over Dems who will come out for McCain then you are fooling yourself.
If Hillary is the nominee McCain will win. If Obama is the nominee then McCain may very well lose, but I think no matter who we put up against Obama will have probably lost because people are easily persuaded by rhetoric rather than substance.
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Ryan - “While I would not call Bush a conservative to say the least, the public perceives him as one and thus the dislike of him tarnishes the movement as a whole.”
And we have Bingo! Thank you.
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Sam at the end of the day it doesn’t matter to me who wins, Hillary, Obama or McCain. They are two sides to the same coin.
You may well be right come November and McCain may win, but if he doesn’t I will take some small pleasure in knowing that I kept my principles and didn’t eat the shit sandwich the GOP handed me. If you do lose, take care next time to remember who you can’t win without. As for me I have already lost so I have nothing left to lose by not playing this bullshit game.
“If you want to act like a crybaby and throw a tantrum because you didn’t get everything you wanted that is your perogative . . .”
I am not angry, I am calm and content with the state of things. This isn’t a tantrum, this is a reality based upon my beliefs in what is and isn’t acceptable government. As for not getting everything I wanted? I didn’t get hardly anything I wanted, but hey sometimes the American public votes that way, they elected FDR four times after all. When the dust settles after the next four years this country will be less free, less conservative, poorer and more imperiled from outside threats than before no matter who is in charge. By supporting either of these clowns that will be partly your responsibility.
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Good response Mike. Too many people paint the “crybaby” label on people who are perfectly calm and rational and just refuse to go along with the ruse.
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I agree with Langley…great response Mike.
Conservatives already lost…we don’t have a player in this game.
I see a McCain v. Clinton or McCain v. Obama race as basically another Democratic primary. I’m not a Democrat so I’m participating in that race.
and to whomever wrote:
“The American Conservative Union gives McCain a lifetime rating of 82, and Clinton a 9.”
McCain scored a 65 in 2006
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I dont think sam is falling for a “ruse”. This situation is not ideal, but government is about making choices, and unfortunately this is our choice right now. Be honest, some of you are crybabies. Just admit it. Its ok to cry, just ask Hillary. What is more frightening to me is this argument that there is no difference in McCain, Hillary or Obama. Given, McCain has some big shortcomings, but if you cant tell a difference then you are a total idiot and should be shot.
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I think I will have to agree to disagree with Mike and Langley on this. But lets keep the discussion civil. Thats what this site is for - for us to hash this stuff out and think about the various issues involved.
My opinion is that the best role for the conservative movement at this point in the nominating process is to push McCain to name one of us as his running mate, both to strengthen the ticket and to hopefully identify a younger movement conservative candidate who will be able to run for President down the road.
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I think some in the “movement conservative” crowd need to chill about McCain. He will receive the vast majority of Republican votes along with a fair share of independents. If he wins with this while some of the “movement conservatives” stay home, he will have no reason to work with you guys in the future. This notion you have to have a specific coalition to win is dead. There are plenty of states with plenty of moderate Republicans that win all the time.
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“but if you cant tell a difference then you are a total idiot and should be shot.”
Uh, wow.
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Kindly, Iraq aside…point out major differences between the two on their RECORDS in the past 8 years.
Because here’s what I see on the issues that matter to me:
Immigration:
McCain - wrote the amnesty bill
Hillary - supported the amnesty bill
Global Warming:
McCain - authored the McCain-Libermann nutjob bill that imposes caps on emissions and greenhouse gases that will cripple the economy.
Hillary - supports the bill
Taxes:
McCain - opposed the Bush tax cuts twice
Hillary - opposed the Bush tax cuts twice
Abortion:
McCain - opposes a constitutional ban, said in 2000 he doesn’t want Roe v Wade overturned because it would be “dangerous to women”
Hillary - same position
Stem Cell Research:
McCain - voted to support
Hillary - voted to support
ANWR:
McCain - opposed drilling
Hillary - opposed drilling
Healthcare:
McCain - worked with Democrats for government-imposed healthcare system
Hillary - wants universal healthcare
Free Speech:
McCain - authored McCain-Feingold
Hillary - supports McCain-Feingold
Judicial Appointments:
(admitted slight difference here)
McCain - Says Samuel Allito is too conservative
Hillary - Believes Samuel Allito is too conservative
Iraq:
McCain - supports the surge
Hillary - will be forced by circumstances to not withdraw
Waterboarding:
McCain - says it is torture
Hillary - says it is torture
Tort Reform:
McCain - Authored McCain-Kennedy-Edwards (Patient Bill of Rights) which was a giveaway to trial lawyers
Hillary - supports the same bill
Corporations:
McCain - Voted for Oxley-Sarbanes
Hillary - Supports Oxley-Sarbanes
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Mike - “I will take some small pleasure in knowing that I kept my principles and didn’t eat the shit sandwich the GOP handed me.”
So your principles would be destroying our health care system for the rest of our lives, jacking up taxes and spinning the economy into a major recession, and retreating from Iraq and allowing the Iranian regime to set up its own puppet government installing a new headquarters for world wide terrorism and likely slaughtering thousands of innocent people throughout the country?
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Sam…where we have the major difference is that you seem to believe that John McCain does not want to go in the same direction as Hillary. I believe he does. She just wants to run in that direction and he’s content walking there.
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Criticizing McCain for opposing torture… Are you serious? Can it get any more classless than that? The guy got tortured on your behalf for 4.5 years. I think he gets a pass on this one.
However, I encourage Gceres, his friend Ann Coulter and all of you to continue making this the centerpiece of your grievances. It’ll get about as much traction as making a campaign issue over where Admiral Sestak has his 4-year old daughter treated for brain cancer.
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I dont waste time explaining obvious things to people who cannot understand. See my previous comment.
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I wish you guys would have been half as critical of Bush when he was running in 2000.
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I was a Democrat in 2000, but I voted for Bush over Gore.
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I’ve been extremely critical of Bush….the first term was a success…the second term was one of the worst second terms in the past 100 years.
Also, you’ll remember that Bush was running against McCain in 2000….so if you thought Bush was a liberal, than how in the world are you backing McCain!
“I dont waste time explaining obvious things to people who cannot understand. See my previous comment.”
Insults…great…but again, no one can point to where he has advanced a single conservative principle in the past 8 years.
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“Criticizing McCain for opposing torture… Are you serious? Can it get any more classless than that?”
The whole point is that water boarding is not torture…and it’s only been used 3 times in the past 7 years…and all 3 times resulted in important information about terrorism.
What’s classless is attacking people for substantive disagreements which is exactly the tactic that McCain has employed time and again.
You know…I am more comfortable in my position of not voting for McClinton than I was even a day or so ago!
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“So your principles would be destroying our health care system for the rest of our lives, jacking up taxes and spinning the economy into a major recession, and retreating from Iraq and allowing the Iranian regime to set up its own puppet government installing a new headquarters for world wide terrorism and likely slaughtering thousands of innocent people throughout the country?”
This is the exact same thing we get with McCain. Each and every thing….how can we be safe from Islamic Extremists when McCain refuses to close the border?
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It does not matter if water boarding is technically torture or not if most Americans and the rest of the civilized world thinks it is torture.
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Most Americans do NOT think it’s torture…most liberals do.
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I would be willing to bet if most Americans saw a video recording of the practice, they would consider it torture. Maybe I believe in human rights and human dignity, but if we have to question whether something is torture, we probably should not be engaging in it.
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Well then you ought to take up your issues with the United States Navy Seals who train with waterboarding.
You also must have missed when Steve Harrigan of Fox News subjected himself to waterboarding with the Navy Seals to demonstrate the practice.
It’s not pleasant or not enjoyable…but I could care less if Abdul Terrorist is uncomfortable….but it is in no way, shape or form torture.
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Give me a break. Being subjected to something as a prisoner of an enemy is far different from going through it as a training exercise or a news gimmick. Surely even you can understand that.
Of course, John McCain can speak to this point; you cannot. He was subjected to waterboarding as a POW (and considers it torture); you were not. I assume you’re a chickenhawk, Gceres?
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If you want to coddle terrorists and confer rights upon them go ahead…but I want my President to use every available means within the bounds of a humane society to protect us from nuclear, biological, chemical attack, etc….and waterboarding is one of those means.
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I disagree with you as a matter of substance, though from your previous posts I don’t think it’d be a very worthwhile exercise to engage in a substantive discussion on the matter.
My point is that criticizing McCain for this, especially as a chickenhawk yourself, is outside the bounds of human decency.
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I do not think its coddling terrorists to respect basic concepts of human rights. Now you can argue as much as you want about them not deserving human rights, and I would agree they do not deserve human rights, but since we are suppose to be a nation that respects human rights and is fighting for them, we should automatically hold ourselves to a higher standard. We must practice what we supposedly preach. Find a way to do what needs to be done without violating those ideals that we are supposedly fighting for.